i slapped my boyfriend
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???Originally posted by jojobeach:Michaeled,
You are doing selective reading.
I spoke to one too many victim of abuse.
No, if friends and family are such ideal outlet for those victims, then what is the use of institutionalized assistance for ? Victims are not orphans or social outcast ok ?
Yes, thank god you live in a cushy eggshell, most people don't.
Which part of my reading was selective? I've been following the flow of the argument and I'm placing what you said into context to make it easier to see what you meant at the bigger picture - that is, that she could not find help because no one will, and she should stand up for herself using physical means. Above I was illustrating the oddity of your statement (although yours was a proof by contradiction, I ignored reductio ad absurdum), so what I was looking for was justification on why you thought there is no answer to whether violence is right or wrong (when you assert that in this case it was right) and thought that Petti should seek help from people (when family/friends wouldn't as you said) and seek assistance from institutions (when you assert society and the public always put her down). And I feel the answer to that is that the argument and our direction is evolving and assimilating into the totality of what both of us is trying to say.
Institutionalized assistance usually brings family members, friends or other people in to the picture to help as well. I know this because I spoke to people who approached social services before.
It's a cop-out to say that just because I have access to good friends or family who is willing to help me that other people will not be able to do so somehow. If that is really the case, I really feel for them, yet at the same time I ask if they really believe no one out there would be willing help. Heck, I'm a stranger to the TS or to any abused victims ever yet I am confident and more than happy to help them, and I'm sure many people are like me.
Then you aren't? What should be the suitable assumption here in regards to the facts given? You just said she acted and responded based on the danger at hand and thus her mind works quickly to respond to the threat (assuming it was an immediate one). Impulse is the transmission of signals that produces a response. To act on impulse is to act without thought in a purely instinctual manner, like you said:Originally posted by jojobeach:You are assuming Petti acts on impulse.Originally posted by jojobeach:She was acting on instinct. A self protective mechanism embedded in our nature.
So her slap was a well-thought out decision of hers?Originally posted by jojobeach:I believe in such situation, people's mind would tend to have assessed the immediate risk factor and initiate the response based on the calculated outcome.
In time of danger, our minds works faster than you would believe.
If Petti's bf is holding a knife, you can bet your life on it, her response would be very different. -
I agree.Originally posted by choco B:It really depends on what was behind the slap
"my boyfriend said he will splash the cup of hot water at my face, and i slapped him. am i wrong? "
Scenario: Did petti slap him because she felt upset and disappointed? Then she is in the wrong.
Scenario: Was boyfriend moving towards the kitchen to get hot water or other dangerous tools while making statement? Then she was doing it in self-preservation, to preempt any harm from coming to her, and the slap is justified. She should have done it to throw bf off, and she should have ran off after that.
In my earlier post I said that the question was whether she was in an immediate harm (to her knowledge)?
If it was something made in passing like.
''I'm gonna hit your head with a frying pan'' and there was not frying pan in his hands, slapping him would not be self-defense.
It would, however be deserving sometimes, if you are one rude individual (irregardless of the law of whether you are right or wrong)
I had a friend whos grandma use to tell him ''I'm going to hit your head until you know'' in hokkien and slapping her seemed absurd to me. -
Michealed,
THIS ......
No one can say if the use of violence against violence is right or wrong, wise or unwise.
If the intended act of retaliation results in the end of an abuse.
How can you say it is wrong or unwise ?
You only read the first sentence ah ? -
Michealed,
No doubt your Ang Moh is very powderful.
But may I know what are you trying to achieve here ?
What good will come of proving my half baked thesis is so wrong ?
OK you spoke to people whom had help from those organizations.
I spoke to people who don't dare to approach help.
And I ask them to stand up for themselves, I try to give them confidence.
I assured them that they don't need to be afraid.
What about you ? -
lolz
I agree with what chocoB said...
If the bf is just threatening for the sake of threatening only without any action, then petti is being too rash. But if he is showing signs of really putting her threat into action, then what she did is reasonable and can be categorized as self-protection.
So we dunno what's the real situation here because the TS has already disappeared from the thread so will jojo and michael stop making your own assumptions and start debating on something which might be far off from the topic?
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Rainee,Originally posted by rainee:lolz
I agree with what chocoB said...
If the bf is just threatening for the sake of threatening only without any action, then petti is being too rash. But if he is showing signs of really putting her threat into action, then what she did is reasonable and can be categorized as self-protection.
So we dunno what's the real situation here because the TS has already disappeared from the thread so will jojo and michael stop making your own assumptions and start debating on something which might be far off from the topic?
How would you know the threat was not real ? By the time anyone finds out it is real, wouldn't it be too late liao lehz ?
Anyway, the exchange is just friendly fire , to kill the boring dayz, no harm no harm. Everything is just for fun. -
jojobeachOriginally posted by jojobeach:Michealed,
THIS ......
No one can say if the use of violence against violence is right or wrong, wise or unwise.
If the intended act of retaliation results in the end of an abuse.
How can you say it is wrong or unwise ?
You only read the first sentence ah ?
I understood it the FIRST time I read it.
By saying ''how can you say it is wrong or unwise'' you're saying that its not.
Essentially, what you are saying is this:
Nobody can say that you're right or wrong if the outcome was favourable.
But aren't you already implying that your method works, without knowing if it will, and thus saying it is right without knowing if the outcome would be favourable?
So you fall under the same category therefore refuting the both of us. That is waht i was saying.
Don't take it the wrong way. I'm glad for your case it worked as it did, but Petti's case is a different case. -> And further advocating into the wait-and-see while advocating your method to be right (before knowing if it will work in her case) is not only dangerous, but lies under the ''nobody can say it is right/wrong IF the situation works out''.
I'm just going to quickly wrap this up: I'm not saying it might not work. I'm saying there are alternatives which are less dangerous(less illegal even) or more mediative. Take our situation - the both of us are challenging beliefs in an organised and diplomatic manner. We don't get too personal, or resort to insults (or even physical brutality). Even if one of us does resort to such thing, we know better than to act in kind. Thats all i'm saying about the issue. Better alternatives. -
That's why I said if he actually shows signs of taking the threat seriously, then petti should do something to protect herself...Originally posted by jojobeach:Rainee,
How would you know the threat was not real ? By the time anyone finds out it is real, wouldn't it be too late liao lehz ?
Anyway, the exchange is just friendly fire , to kill the boring dayz, no harm no harm. Everything is just for fun.
actually she can just choose to walk away... -
Thanks for the compliment! And you're not half-bad yourself jojobeach!Originally posted by jojobeach:Michealed,
No doubt your Ang Moh is very powderful.
But may I know what are you trying to achieve here ?
What good will come of proving my half baked thesis is so wrong ?
OK you spoke to people whom had help from those organizations.
I spoke to people who don't dare to approach help.
And I ask them to stand up for themselves, I try to give them confidence.
I assured them that they don't need to be afraid.
What about you ?
What am I trying to prove? Nothing. I can't prove, I can advise.
It's a healthy debate. I thought we are chilling and not getting too personal.
On the question on what I'm trying to achieve, all I can ask is: WHAT ABOUT YOU? what are you trying to achieve? Isn't this just a healthy discussion? Why delve so much deeper below the surface to ask the why-are-you-here and what-is-your-motive.
I seek to give them courage to ask for help! It's a different form of courage (than to resolve using violence), but courage nonetheless~!
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okay...Originally posted by rainee:lolz
So we dunno what's the real situation here because the TS has already disappeared from the thread so will jojo and michael stop making your own assumptions and start debating on something which might be far off from the topic?
lets debate on.... err.... the bill to allow gay marriages in singapore~! -
Love?relationship?
what petty provocation.
Any intelligent over logical human beings would never have see love or relationship on their agenda. -
Huh, so chim.Originally posted by Michaeled:jojobeach
I understood it the FIRST time I read it.
By saying ''how can you say it is wrong or unwise'' you're saying that its not.
Essentially, what you are saying is this:
Nobody can say that you're right or wrong if the outcome was favourable.
But aren't you already implying that your method works, without knowing if it will, and thus saying it is right without knowing if the outcome would be favourable?
So you fall under the same category therefore refuting the both of us. That is waht i was saying.
Don't take it the wrong way. I'm glad for your case it worked as it did, but Petti's case is a different case. -> And further advocating into the wait-and-see while advocating your method to be right (before knowing if it will work in her case) is not only dangerous, but lies under the ''nobody can say it is right/wrong IF the situation works out''.
I'm just going to quickly wrap this up: I'm not saying it might not work. I'm saying there are alternatives which are less dangerous(less illegal even) or more mediative. Take our situation - the both of us are challenging beliefs in an organised and diplomatic manner. We don't get too personal, or resort to insults (or even physical brutality). Even if one of us does resort to such thing, we know better than to act in kind. Thats all i'm saying about the issue. Better alternatives.
My brain feels fried from your ang moh.
Yes lah, alternatives aplenty.
Petti already slapped liao. Right or wrong, it doesn't matter already.
Most important, Petti won't have to face this same situation, she don't use the same response, because her bf won;t be so stupid let her slap again. OK ? -
Ladies and gentlemen.
When going into any relationship,consider the pros and cons.
After that,suck up and eat it.
Don't whine. -
Self doubt was what I was trying to shoo away from Petti.Originally posted by Michaeled:Thanks for the compliment! And you're not half-bad yourself jojobeach!
What am I trying to prove? Nothing. I can't prove, I can advise.
It's a healthy debate. I thought we are chilling and not getting too personal.
On the question on what I'm trying to achieve, all I can ask is: WHAT ABOUT YOU? what are you trying to achieve? Isn't this just a healthy discussion? Why delve so much deeper below the surface to ask the why-are-you-here and what-is-your-motive.
I seek to give them courage to ask for help! It's a different form of courage (than to resolve using violence), but courage nonetheless~!
Self doubt was the reason why most victims remained victims.
And yeh, chill. World peace sista! -
Lubbish~Originally posted by boka:Ladies and gentlemen.
When going into any relationship,consider the pros and cons.
After that,suck up and eat it.
Don't whine.
Go suck it up, eat it, doesn't sit well, vomit it out.
Why give yourself diarrhea? -
Didn't mean to be chim. But it was the only way to best explain it.Originally posted by jojobeach:Huh, so chim.
My brain feels fried from your ang moh.
Yes lah, alternatives aplenty.
Petti already slapped liao. Right or wrong, it doesn't matter already.
Most important, Petti won't have to face this same situation, she don't use the same response, because her bf won;t be so stupid let her slap again. OK ?
Yeah.. though we can only hope so that thats the case. Even though I doubt it will end there.
Her BF is a jerk, whether or not what she did was right or wrong. Well thats that to the discussion.
In whichever case, jojobeach, all I can say to you is:
toché!
You're pretty formidable debater. And I'd hate to have to debate with you again... lol. Oh well, the time killing made my day. Debates don't need conclusion, only another friend to debate with!
I understand. Me too. Only, I'm chasing the self-doubt preventing her from getting help (which was advocated in the previous posts), not the self doubt that she has in her physical ability to stand up for herself. Self doubt in other ppl's help is doubt nonetheless.Originally posted by jojobeach:Self doubt was what I was trying to shoo away from Petti.
Self doubt was the reason why most victims remained victims.
And yeh, chill. World peace sista!
I respect your opinion and I guess difference in views is what makes this 80 years more worthwhile - you get to meet all sorts of people who may or may not agree on certain things. -
I am glad that you people can regulate and moderate a potential 'flame' among yourself, without intervention.
/me keep fire extinguisher.
Cheers -
Anyone in the right mind would know a relationship is full of 'surprise'Originally posted by jojobeach:Lubbish~
Go suck it up, eat it, doesn't sit well, vomit it out.
Why give yourself diarrhea?
and since they chose to get into one knowing the unexpected 'surprise',why even whine when issues arise?
Baka.. -
Nothing wrong with whining.Originally posted by boka:Anyone in the right mind would know a relationship is full of 'surprise'
and since they chose to get into one knowing the unexpected 'surprise',why even whine when issues arise?
Baka..
Everyone whines once a while, it's a form of expression, an outlet for frustrations.
The question is, after whine already, what ya do about the problem ?
Do you sit and hope for things to change/improve ? Or do you actively seek a solution to solve the problem ? -
he cry
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sorry but i expect humans to follow a line of command.Originally posted by jojobeach:Nothing wrong with whining.
Everyone whines once a while, it's a form of expression, an outlet for frustrations.
The question is, after whine already, what ya do about the problem ?
Do you sit and hope for things to change/improve ? Or do you actively seek a solution to solve the problem ?
When they accept to enter any relationship or risky situiation,it states that they abide to any unforseen circumstance and therefore should never whine. -
Sure, if you so staunchly believes in this. Then you can do it.Originally posted by boka:sorry but i expect humans to follow a line of command.
When they accept to enter any relationship or risky situiation,it states that they abide to any unforseen circumstance and therefore should never whine.
Don't expect everyone else to follow your idea though. -
Continue,... Round 2: FIght
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After following this 'saga' for so many days did anyone realize that the TS has only posted once in this post and that was just the beginning? Where thereafter TS seemed to have gone silent when forumners ask her what was the cause or the root of her slapping of the boyfriend. To me TS has something to hide and refuse to divulge any further because she must be in the wrong too or else why won't she come clean? And here we are as usual, the more active and vocal lot started a debate without really knowing the full story of TS's agony.
From what I can see some of the forumners here still have lingering shadow of their past abuses and then every now and then exhibit their so-called righteousness by advocating others to use violence against violence!
Self defense will only come in when one is being physically abuse. No one is allowed to hit another no matter what the other party said to you. The moment you physically lay a finger on someone you are already in the wrong!